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Topamax plus Wellbutrin = no appetite
Posted: 11 April 2007 08:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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Clabbergirl,

If it would be helpful to show them to your doctor, I would be glad to email you a couple of papers showing that Zonegran and Topamax cause weight loss and that Topamax prevents migraines. I don’t know if Zongegran affects migraines.

If so, just email me at larryhobbs@fatnews.com and request them.

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Posted: 11 April 2007 08:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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Bran,

All drugs that cause weight loss, such as Zonegran and Topamax, that are not categorized as diet pills, list weight loss as an adverse effect.

It’s only adverse if it is something that you don’t want.

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Posted: 11 April 2007 11:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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Thank you Larry. I have brought up several journal articles about these things, and the doctor is not receptive. I can’t even get the sentence out. I love this doctor and she has helped me with several things, but I’m thinking it might be best to shop around. I brought up switching to Armour for my hypothyroidism, at least to try it because some of my symptoms have come back and Armour is natural with all types of hormone (T4, T3, T2, T1), unlike synthetic. She was very unreceptive and told me Armour is a very bad thing, most people do terrible on it, etc. This directly contradicts what I have heard from people who take Armour, and what I’ve read. Besides that, drugs act differently in people. What works for one may not work for another, and the fact that I’m not getting what I need on one any longer ought to signify something.

Sorry to get so far off topic, but this tells me that the doctor isn’t open to a lot of self-researched info, even if it’s scientific. Maybe I’m not trying hard enough, but I’m thinking of shopping around. I don’t want to resort to buying drugs off the internet because my doctor refuses to treat my symptoms instead of the lab results.

I think this doctor is more sympathetic to someone struggling with weight than others I’ve had, but it still doesn’t “count” unless it’s done through good old fashioned diet and exercise - that stigma.

I agree that these are very important components in getting weight to a healthy level, and they are lifelong tools we have to learn to use. But I find it difficult to believe that for every person out there, diet and exercise will work the same. I saw a woman on the Today show who lost something like 126 lbs through diet and exercise. She has been maintaining for a long time, but she said she has to work out 3 hours A DAY to keep at a normal weight. She believes it is because she was so large for so long. THIS is exactly how I feel. I have never been able to lose on 30 min a day, and really only ever saw results when I did an hour to 1.5 hours a day. I’m talking about 80% heart rate the entire time, sweating buckets, hard-core workouts. This is with 1000-1500 cal/day diets too, high protein, low fat stuff. People who’ve never had a weight problem (and only had to lose 20 lbs when they hit 35, for example) balk at me and think I’m exaggerating, but I have journals going back 10 years to prove it. This sort of info tells me that not everyone’s body responds to diet and exercise the same way, just as with medications.

Again, I’m getting off topic. I would like to try either of these for my migraines, and as a perk, maybe lose a little or at least not gain. I may take you up on your offer, Larry, even if I do change doctors.

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Posted: 12 April 2007 12:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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Clabbergirl,

I would probably look for a new doctor also, someone open to ideas that you suggest.

Armour Thyroid

I agree with you that Armour thyroid seems to be superior according to the doctors I respect most, but the medical community has been brainwashed into thinking they should only use T4.

I imagine what happened with thyroid was that the company that owned the patent for T4 paid several researchers to write papers and give speeches at medical conferences saying that you should only use T4 and let the body convert it to T3. If you say anything enough, people will believe you.

About 10 years ago, I saw a 30 minute program on thyroid program on the now defunk channel called American Medical Television. They had several thyroid experts on. They all said the same thing. “You should only take T4 and let the body convert it to T3.”

Fewer side effects on Armour Thyroid than Synthroid

Either Dr. Jonathan Wright or Dr. Ward Dean have said that patients experience fewer side effects on natural dessicated thyroid, such as Armour Thyroid, than they do on Synthroid (T4 only).

It takes a lot of exercise for women to lose weight

I agree with you that it takes a lot of exercise for women to lose weight.

30 minutes of vigorous exercise or 80 minutes of moderate exercise to minimize weight gain

One of my favorite studies showing this is one which found that women must engage in either 30 minutes of vigorous exercise or 80 minutes of moderate exercise per day to minimize weight gain.

Yikes! That’s a lot of exercise—more than most people are willing to do.

The article is posted here:

http://fatnews.com/index.php?/weblog/comments/752/

5 hours of exercise per week for women to gain one less pound

Another study found that women who exercised 5 hours per week gained 1 less pound per year than women who did not exercise.

Yikes again! That’s a lot of exercise with not a lot of benefit.

The article is posted here:

http://fatnews.com/index.php?/weblog/comments/767/

Diet causes as much weight loss as diet plus exercise

Numerous studies have found that middle-aged women lose as much weight with diet as they do with diet plus exercise.

An article about one study is posted here:

http://fatnews.com/index.php?/weblog/comments/766/

Moderate exercise cause weight loss in men, weight maintenance in women

Another study found that exercise caused weight loss in men, but only weight maintenance in women.

The article is posted here:

http://fatnews.com/index.php?/weblog/comments/751/

The media spreads the belief that “losing weight is just a matter of diet and exercise”

I think the media is part of the problem, giving people the idea that diet and exercise are equal in their ability to cause weight loss. They are not.

I think diet is about 10 times more effective at causing weight loss than exercise. This is not an exact figure and is not based on any research. It is just trying to emphasize that if you want to lose weight, you have cut calories. It would be nearly impossible for most people to keep eating the way they are eating and lose weight simply by increasing the amount of exercise the do. It just won’t work.

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Posted: 12 April 2007 02:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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Great links!

I agree with your last statements, but again it’s just a hunch. It makes sense that if the body is built to keep us alive by conserving calories in a famine, why not make our bodies hold onto calories in a high-stres situation (i.e. large energy expenditure)? The whole diet & exercise is the answer sells a lot of books, exercise equipment, and prepackaged diet meals. It keeps business in the black. What would happen to the food industry if people stopped paying the extra $1 - $4 over for ‘healthy’ food alternatives like South Beach meals, Slimfast, etc. I suspect it would hurt financially because some of the biggest customers of food companies are overweight!! Kind of like smokers marketing ‘low-tar’ cigarettes to their customers…we want to make smoking less bad for you…

I’m starting to sound like a conspiracy theorist or something and really I’m not. But the food pyramind has been modified time and again, and people are still getting fatter. And again, the medical establishment is fine treating symptoms that stem from obesity, but not obesity itself.

Something else I’ve been considering lately…the socioeconomic status of the obese. I see a lot of low-income folks who are obese, and quite a few middle-class, but not so many upper-class and wealthy. Have you got any studies that have looked at this?

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Posted: 12 April 2007 02:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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Clabbergirl,

Yes, you are exactly right. There are numerous studies showing that there is more obesity among the poor than among the rich.

This is true in most countries except for a few such as Mexico, where poor people are less likely to be obese than rich people.

I think the reason it is the opposite in Mexico, at least for now, is, I imagine, because the poor people in Mexcio live on rice and beans, whereas poor people in the U.S. have access to a lot of fatty fast food.

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Posted: 26 April 2007 03:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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Well, drat. I quickly develop a tolerance to the appetite-suppressing effect of Topamax every time the dose is raised—I only get the effect for a week. So I’ve only lost about 10 lbs. Today I was prescribed Adipex so maybe it’ll have a synergistic effect with the Topamax and Wellbutrin? Or should I exchange one of them for Prozac?

My Topamax experience is probably not what everybody can expect. I’m what’s called a “rapid metabolizer”, i.e., my liver gets rid of medications quickly, sometimes so much so that it’s before they even have time to work. This happens with everything, even aspirin. I wish I could get rid of calories so easily. (Grumble, grumble).

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Posted: 26 April 2007 05:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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Shannon,

Weight Loss Doctors who use these combinations usually use phentermine with Topamax.

The research on Wellbutrin for weight loss in not very impressive to me.

I believe the only reason that one of the drug companies is pursuing using Wellbutrin rather than phentermine for weight loss in one or two of their drug combinations is because Wellbutrin for weight loss is still under patent and they can make more money doing so. It is not because it is better than phentermine, because it definitely is not.

A better combination may be phentermine with Zonegran according to Dr. Jay Piatek. It works as well as Topamax, but with fewer side effects. However, the dose must be increased very slowly.

An article about how Dr. Piatek uses Zonegran is posted here:

http://fatnews.com/index.php?/weblog/comments/896/

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Posted: 02 November 2007 04:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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a little caution about Topamax, it can cause severe hair loss. It happend to me and to my sister. It doesn’t start right away it can take 4-6 months to get started and the shedding is terrible. The worst part is if you stop taking it the hair loss doesn’t stop for about another 4-6 months.

There’s a lot of info and personal stories out on the net about hair loss with Topamax. google will turn up a lot and if anyone wants to see more I can look and see if I still have my links.

great drug for weight loss if you don’t mind losing a great deal of your hair. It doesn’t happen to all people but it’s a substantial amount.  Some people have tried taking Biotin and had some success, same for using Nioxin but it’s a your experience may vary thing. Both my sister and I had to wait it out, it was just awful.

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Posted: 03 November 2007 08:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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Juliana,

Thanks for the info about hair loss.

A number of weight loss doctors have said they are using Topamax, usually in combination with phentermine, but I don’t remember them talking much about hair loss.

I’ll email some of them and ask them what they have seen and what they do about it.

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Posted: 03 November 2007 08:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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Larry,

it’s listed in the side effects (low %) and I went in knowing it but had no idea how prevelant it was in the actual use of the drug once it went to prescription. Once it started for both of us I was shocked at how many cases of it I found on the internet. There was one site that had a long long page of people with side effects from the drug and I’d bet about 30% were complaining about severe hair loss. The worst thing about it was that stopping the drug didn’t help - the loss continued for 5-6 months after and the extreme shedding barely let up the whole time. 

Phentermine and other stimulants can cause hair loss so I’d want to know from doctors who were not treating with both at the same time. When this happens a lot of doctors don’t want to blame the drug or say it’s not coming from that, but since it happened to both of us at the same time and I found so many problems when I started looking online, there’s no doubt its a real problem.

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Posted: 03 November 2007 08:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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Juliana,

I just sent an email to a bunch of doctors.

Hair loss can also occur with weight loss.

I wonder if it is the Topamax or the weight loss—some nutritional deficiency—that is causing the problem.

I’ll post any responses I get from the doctors.

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Posted: 03 November 2007 09:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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Clabbergirl - 12 April 2007 04:58 AM

Thank you Larry. I have brought up several journal articles about these things, and the doctor is not receptive. I can’t even get the sentence out. I love this doctor and she has helped me with several things, but I’m thinking it might be best to shop around. I brought up switching to Armour for my hypothyroidism, at least to try it because some of my symptoms have come back and Armour is natural with all types of hormone (T4, T3, T2, T1), unlike synthetic. She was very unreceptive and told me Armour is a very bad thing, most people do terrible on it, etc. This directly contradicts what I have heard from people who take Armour, and what I’ve read. Besides that, drugs act differently in people. What works for one may not work for another, and the fact that I’m not getting what I need on one any longer ought to signify something.

Sorry to get so far off topic, but this tells me that the doctor isn’t open to a lot of self-researched info, even if it’s scientific. Maybe I’m not trying hard enough, but I’m thinking of shopping around. I don’t want to resort to buying drugs off the internet because my doctor refuses to treat my symptoms instead of the lab results.

clabbergirl,

I switched to Armour about 7 years ago and I can’t tell you what a difference it made.

at the time I switched I had been on Synthroid for about 5-6 years and all of a sudden I started gaining weight and no matter how I changed my diet I couldn’t get my weight under control. Prior to that I had been maintaining for about 7 years and if I gained 3-5 lbs I would watch myself and get it off. This time nothing helped and I knew that there were hundreds of things that cause weight loss, but very few that cause weight gain. I kept researching and one day I saw a book in BN called “Is Your Thyroid Making You Fat” and I bought it and learned about T4 and T3, etc. I changed to the Armour and the weight started to come off and I started to feel better. I eventually got my sister to change also and she says she feels much better on the Armour.

My endo was opposed to it when I started going to her (I was already taking it) she told me she’d treat me but she didn’t believe in it and doesn’t prescribe it. That was about 5 years ago and over the years she has come around and she now prescribes it for her patients. I saw one of the best endo’s in the country and he screamed at me (literally) for about 10 minutes ranting that he wouldn’t treat me unless I got off the Armour. I needed to see him for other things and tried to switch back to the Synthroid and had a severe reaction. Any time since then when I have come off Armour for different reasons, I had my drugstore compound the T4 for me with no additives.

If your doctor won’t treat you with Armour and you’re not feeling great or optimized, I’d really get another opinion. there is no reason to feel badly. Most of my doctors also undermedicated me, the difference when I increased my meds is incredible in terms of the quality of my life.  My only problem is as I increase my dose of thyroid meds, my appetite goes way up. It doesn’t happen to everyone but it does happen to a small percentage of thyroid patients.  I have been on About.com’s thyroid board off and on over the years and my experience is the majority of people who switch to Armour do well on it. I see a very small percentage of people who have problems compared to how badly people feel on the synthetics and think the reason they don’t feel well is because of some other mysterious problem they can’t get diagnosed. 

I was told I had hypothryoidism and all I had to do was take this pill every day and I’d be fine. What i didn’t know back then (before the internet) is when I wasn’t feeling well and continued to go down hill and my thyroid levels were “OK” according to my doctors, I looked elsewhere for why I felt so badly.  I get copies of all my blood tests now and I don’t take my doctors word for everything they tell me. When I had gained that weight years ago and was sitting in my doctors office literally crying to him about what was happening he was looking at my blood test with a TSH of 6.8 when my thyroid levels had been so much lower for years, and he never said a word that my thyroid was part of the problem.

HTH:)

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Posted: 03 November 2007 09:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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Larry Hobbs - 03 November 2007 01:55 PM

Juliana,

I just sent an email to a bunch of doctors.

Hair loss can also occur with weight loss.

I wonder if it is the Topamax or the weight loss—some nutritional deficiency—that is causing the problem.

I’ll post any responses I get from the doctors.


I think me, my sister and a lot of the people I read have lost a lot of weight over the years, I certainly lost more than I did in the 5-6 months on Topamax and never had this kind of hair loss. I’m talking about massive shedding and it wouldn’t stop after stopping the drug. JMO, but I think it’s the drug. I’m very interested to hear about your responses.

J

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Posted: 03 November 2007 12:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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Juliana,

Regarding Topamax and hair loss.

Weight loss doctor Michael Anchors, MD, PhD, author of “Safer Than Phen-Fen”, wrote:

—————

Weight loss alone, if substantial and rapid, is well known to cause scalp hair loss. No need to blame Topamax specifically. Weight loss is not reported with it. No one taking Topamax for migraine or neuropathy suffers hair loss. The case is pretty clear.

The mechanism advanced for hair loss is interesting. It’s said that fat loss releases fat-stored androgenic hormones. Do you believe it? If so, then androgen blockers should alleviate the hair loss. There are expensive powerful ones, but an old, cheap, not-so-strong one is spironolactone. Young doctors may not know about this older drug.

Weight-loss associated hair loss is always limited and temporary, even without treatment.

Michael Anchors, MD, PhD

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