Home page > Article
|
Previous article
|
Next article
SEARCH
QUICKLINKS AND VIEW OPITONS
37-year-old woman loses 25 pounds of fat taking 10 grams of arginine per day
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
Saturday, March 14, 2009 11:32 am Email this article
Studies have shown that arginine reduces body fat in growing rats.
Here is the first piece of anecdotal evidence showing that this is probably true in humans as well.
Articles on the same subject can be found here:
COMMENTS
On Apr 02, 2009 at 8:22 pm caddie wrote:
. . . . .
Larry, thank you for this very interesting item. Does the book say how long it took for her to lose 25 pounds? Also, I'm interested in why you recommend 20 grams of arginine a day, when she got great results on only 10 (the stuff is expensive, after all, which is why I ask)?
--Caddie
On Apr 02, 2009 at 8:57 pm Larry Hobbs wrote:
. . . . .
Caddie,
I believe she lost it within a few months.
She lost the weight while taking 10 grams of arginine per day.
She notes that after losing the weight, perhaps even several years later, she increased her dose to 20 grams per day, which, I believe, she did for other health benefits.
Therefore, 10 grams per day should be fine.
On May 04, 2009 at 11:06 pm Jeff wrote:
. . . . .
Should you consume the powdered version of arginine or the capsules?
On May 06, 2009 at 11:20 am Admin2 wrote:
. . . . .
Jeff,
It does not matter.
I prefer powder simply because it is cheaper -- usually much cheaper.
Two places that sell powder in bulk for cheap is Beyond-A-Century and Pure Bulk.
http://beyond-a-century.com/
I've bought from Beyond-A-Century for 25 years.
I trust them.
----
A second place, which I just bought some Arginine/Ornithine Hcl from, is Pure Bulk:
http://purebulk.com/
He also sells on eBay.
The owners seems very straight-forward.
On his website and on eBay, he gives his name and cell phone number in case you have any questions.
I trust the guy because of his straight-forwardness.
----
Don't be lured into buying a supplement because it has a fancy label.
They all buy from the same manufacturers and then put it into their own bottles with their own fancy labels.
Someone commented on one of my YouTube videos about glutamine saying they liked the glutamine sold at Walmart because it is pure.
Walmart does not make glutamine.
They buy glutamine from the same manufactures that everybody else does.
There is nothing special about it.
The only thing to be careful about is to buy from somebody you trust.
About a year ago, I bought 10 pounds of half a dozen powders from a distributor.
One of the things I bought was tryptophan.
I've taken tryptophan for 25 years and it has a unique taste.
When I tasted the tryptophan, I immediately knew it was fake.
I sent everything back to the distributor because I did not trust them, and will never buy from them again.
I found out who the owner was and did a Google search on his name.
It turns out that he fled some country overseas because had been charged with international fraud.
The company now has been charged by the US Federal Trade Commission (FTC) as making false claims about Hoodia.
I would avoid anyone you don't trust, and only buy from companies you trust.
On May 07, 2009 at 4:47 pm Ralph wrote:
. . . . .
I'm an overweight male, 5 feet 9.5 inches tall and currently 207 pounds. I have my mom's hypothyroidism and I take 1 to 2 grains of Armour a day. For years, I had used Sibutramine to bring my body weight to around 186. With low carb dieting I could bring it down as low as 174. Unfortunately, since last year, my blood pressure has been rising dangerously high which required me to stop taking diet pills. My weight rose back up to nearly 212 before I decided to do something about it and that's when I: a) hired a personal trainer for one day a week, b) started Nutrisystem and c) added 2 cardio sessions of 45 minutes each.
Nutrisystem is not the most enjoyable diet I've been on, but it's very healthy compared to low carbing and relatively easy to stay on (if you don't mind the high cost of their food).
Since I can no longer take sibutramine because of my high blood pressure, I started looking for other "accelerants" that were not likely to raise blood pressure. I started googling and by accident found Larry's *excellent* fatnews.com site. Thank you, Larry. You put a lot of effort into this site and the professional quality of your Youtube videos indicates we are blessed to have such a strong advocate against obesity.
To get to the point of this post, I knew I wanted to try supplementing my brain chemistry to help with the moodiness during dieting so I currently use combinations of Mucuna (L-dopa), L-tyrosine, 5-HTP, Beta-Phenylethylamine and Picamilon to give me the mood boost necessary to make this diet exciting.
But, because of Larry's advice, I bought L-arginine to add to the mix because of its magical properties perfect for my situation: 1) aids people with high blood pressure and possible cardiovascular system problems and 2) accelerates the burning of fat preferentially to muscle. I take 10-15 grams daily and so far have had no diarrhea.
It is certainly true that no one thing can explain what is going on here, it is some combination of eating better, working out more, taking mood booster chemicals (which by the way do seem to make the weight drop quicker because after all you're doing something similar to what phentermine does more quickly) and of course L-arginine.
Well, I can tell you I've never gone to the bathroom that much in one day in a long time. The arginine is making me do "number 2" with a vengeance and I'm not consuming enough food to explain the amount that's coming out so I know there is some fat (or possibly but I doubt muscle) loss going on. I will post the results, but based on what I'm seeing coming out, I don't think there's any doubt that this supplement will help some people. It is an "accelerant" and it doesn't seem to have ANY side effects you normally associate with diet pills.
Just one man's observation.
Thanks for the tremendous work, Larry.
Cheers,
Ralph
On May 07, 2009 at 9:32 pm Jeff wrote:
. . . . .
Thank you Larry for the response regarding the powdered vs capsule versions of arginine. I was just worried that the powdered version would not even make it past the small intestine, thus rendering it useless. Any opinions? I'm going to buy my supply and try it for a few weeks and see what happens.
On May 07, 2009 at 9:45 pm Caddie wrote:
. . . . .
I tried arginine capsules for about a month (10 grams/day) with, unfortunately no noticeable effect at all. Maybe it works for some people and not others.
On May 08, 2009 at 8:42 am Ralph wrote:
. . . . .
Caddie,
Did you combine portion control, cardio 2-4x a week, and other supplements? Or did you just take L-arginine with no other lifestyle changes?
Also, did you divide the doses for your 10g per day or did you take it all at once?
Ralph
On May 08, 2009 at 9:43 am Admin2 wrote:
. . . . .
Ralph,
Thank you for your nice comments.
I appreciate it.
Regarding blood pressure...
I will post some articles / videos about potassium bicarbonate.
It has worked incredibly well for me at lowering my blood pressure from roughly 140/70-something to roughly 122/74.
It has many benefits.
I think taking potassium is one of the healthiest things I do.
On May 08, 2009 at 10:03 am Admin2 wrote:
. . . . .
Ralph,
Regarding Meridia (sibutramine)...
I am not a fan of Merida.
I don't like noradrenaline reuptake inhibitors such as Merida or the antidepressants Effexor or Cymbalta.
I think they weaken the body.
Noradrenaline reuptake is an importance source of noradrenaline for the body according to a classic book on pharmacology called "Goodman & Gilman's The Pharmacological Basis of Therapeutics".
Normally, it releases it, then reabsorbs it, then releases it, then reabsorbs it.
By blocking reuptake with drugs like Merida, it allows enzymes (MAO) to break it down, thus depleting stores of noradrenaline in the body.
I also think that noradrenaline reuptake inhibitors such as Merida causes the adrenal glands to shrink.
My guess is that if someone is on Merida for a long period of time, and then stops, they are likely to feel extremely tired and depressed, perhaps for months, because their adrenals have shrunk and cannot keep up with the normal demand of the body.
I'm not a fan.
To me, drugs that stimulate noradrenaline release, such as phentermine or ephedrine are much more "natural" in the sense that the body normally releases noradrenaline when we exercise or get scared or eat.
Thus, I prefer phentermine or ephedrine to Merida.
On May 08, 2009 at 10:10 am Admin2 wrote:
. . . . .
Ralph,
Regarding noradrenaline and blood pressure...
Noradrenaline raises blood pressure, whereas dopamine lowers blood pressure.
Taking L-tyrosine, which is the precursor to L-dopa, then dopamine, then noradrenaine, then adrenaline, may help to normalize blood pressure when taking a noradrenaline-releasing drug.
Mucuna (L-dopa) might also lower blood pressure, but I would not take too much of this.
It might make you feel weird.
You might expect just the opposite, but L-dopa makes me feel sleepy.
Parkinson's patients given L-dopa often have low blood pressure, which can result in dizziness when they stand up.
On May 08, 2009 at 10:24 am Admin2 wrote:
. . . . .
Ralph,
Regarding L-dopa...
L-Dopa is a growth hormone releaser.
Because of this, in 1987, when I was 29-years-old, I took L-dopa -- maybe 500 mg per day, if I remember correctly -- lifted weights, and ate a couple of turkey sandwiches for breakfast every morning to "feed my muscles", thinking that it would make chest bigger and my arms bigger.
I gained 15 pounds in 6 weeks.
But I did not look like a well-muscled athlete, instead, I looked like a fat guy.
My neck got bigger, my waist got bigger, my thighs got bigger.
My waist went from 34-inches to 39-inches.
The neck size on my shirts went from 15.5 inches to 17 inches.
Several people said to me, "Are you lifting weights?"
Yes, I was lifting weights, but it wasn't a good look.
It took me months and months and months to lose the 15 pounds.
I don't believe the L-dopa caused me to gain weight.
I think it was simply that I was eating more to "feed my muscles", but beware of wishful thinking.
Sometimes Parkinson's patients lose weight when given L-dopa, but still, beware.
On May 08, 2009 at 10:26 am Admin2 wrote:
. . . . .
Ralph,
Yes, please, keep us informed on your progress.
Thanks for your input.
On May 08, 2009 at 10:37 am Admin2 wrote:
. . . . .
Jeff,
What leads to believe that arginine is useless unless it makes it past the small intestine?
Did you read somewhere that it is destroyed by stomach acid?
If you read this somewhere, I'd say it is total nonsense.
If you saw it in some advertisement, I'd say they are only trying to sell you their product.
The only supplement I can think of that may be better take in enteric -coated capsules, which are resistant to acid so it's not destroyed by stomach acid, is perhaps probiotics, which are bacteria that live in the lower gut.
But even with probiotics, which I have taken occasionally when I've had an irritated gut, I take them in powdered form also because it is much cheaper and much easier to take large doses, which seem to work just fine.
On May 08, 2009 at 10:38 am Admin2 wrote:
. . . . .
Caddie,
Thanks for your feedback.
On May 08, 2009 at 11:48 am caddie wrote:
. . . . .
Ralph:
I took in 2 or 3 separate doses usually (I just parcelled out the number of pills on a counter and tried to take them after meals, sometimes I'd forget and take them all later to make up for it).
As to lifestyle changes, well, I always get a lot of exercise, but I'm also always struggling to check my food intake. I probably ate about the same amount while taking the arginine. But if you have to cut your food intake to get results, you would be getting results even without the arginine!
On May 08, 2009 at 3:05 pm Ralph wrote:
. . . . .
Larry,
Thanks for all the tips. I will incorporate them into my regimen.
Caddie,
Did you notice any appetite suppresant effects while using arginine?
Ralph
On May 08, 2009 at 5:54 pm Admin2 wrote:
. . . . .
Ralph,
You're welcome.
Regarding arginine and appetite...
They found that rats given arginine tended to eat more, therefore, they gave the arginine-fed rats the same amount of food that the control rats ate.
On May 08, 2009 at 7:11 pm caddie wrote:
. . . . .
Ralph, I didn't feel it any effect on appetite one way or the other. I've read about a study on a different amino acid -- leucine -- which supposedly suppressed appetite in rats. Apparently the stuff is fantastically bitter -- maybe it was just from the bad taste in their mouths. 
(I suppose one could try capsules.)
On May 08, 2009 at 7:53 pm Admin2 wrote:
. . . . .
Caddie,
Interesting comment about leucine.
I've taken it for muscle recovery from exercise.
It tastes OK to me.
I found it INCREASED my appetite several hours later.
If I remember correctly, it increases insulin release, which would be consistent with an increase in appetite.
On May 08, 2009 at 8:11 pm Admin2 wrote:
. . . . .
Caddie,
A letter published in the journal Science in 2006 noted that...
"In their recent Report... Cota... showed that increased... availability of... leucine [in the brainacts as a potent signal that reduces food intake... and suggested that low leucine levels [outside the brain] may... stimulate food intake in the brain."
"Although very interesting, these experimental data appear to conflict with clinical data.
"The amino acid leucine has been used for decades to... increase muscle protein synthesis, and to improve appetite [that is, INCREASE appetite].
"... changes in brain neurochemistry [following intake of leucine] are NOT associated with reduced food intake, but rather with ENHANCED appetite and protein synthesis.
"In cancer patients, supplementation [with branched-chain amino acids, which includes 50% leucine plus valine and isoleucine] that provides 7 grams of leucine [per day] rapidly improves [INCREASES] food intake (2) and enhances protein synthesis (3).
"Similar results are seen in malnourished... patients...
"We therefore believe that [branched-chain amino acids, which includes leucine, valine and isoleucine], particularly leucine supplementation, remains a useful and clinically relevant tool to improve [INCREASE] food intake and enhance protein synthesis in patients suffering from chronic diseases.."
REFERENCE
Laviano A, Meguid MM, Inui A, Rossi-Fanelli F. Role of leucine in regulating food intake. Science. 2006 Sep 1, 313(5791):1236-8; author reply 1236-8
On May 09, 2009 at 9:52 am caddie wrote:
. . . . .
Larry, here is one of those articles talking about leucine and appetite control (and I know I've seen more recent ones, although maybe they were all about the same study?): http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9147-why-highprotein-meat-may-curb-appetite.html
In any event, thank you for you input -- your information sounds like a reason not to try it. As for taste, did you use the powdered type? It has the consistency of ground stryofoam so it's hard to mix in things. I found it the most bitter thing I've ever tried to ingest. Maybe it was the brand.
On May 09, 2009 at 12:08 pm Admin2 wrote:
. . . . .
Caddie,
Thanks for the link.
Yes, this is the same study that the letter refers to.
The letter notes that the study, which injected leucine into a specific area of the brain, found a decrease in appetite, but in people with chronic diseases, they've found that giving leucine orally increases appetite.
Yes, I used leucine powder.
You'd probably hate the taste of the powder.
I say this only because every friend who has ever tried any of many powders that I take, hate the taste of them with a passion and act like they are the worst thing they have ever tasted.
Even powders which have almost no taste to me, my friends say, "How can you take this? It tastes awful!"
But when I can buy powder which is 50-80% cheaper than capsules, I'll take the powder every time.
Eighty percent off is like buying two months worth and getting 10 months for free.
On May 10, 2009 at 6:37 am Ralph wrote:
. . . . .
I've dropped from around 207 to 201.4 yesterday. This is over a period of almost three weeks.
Based on previous weight loss attempts, I suspect I will hit some snags at 198, but after that I should easily get to 186.
I've never been able to lose significant amounts of weight on a calorie restricted, portion controlled, high carb diet. That may be because my hypothyroidism was not serious enough to treat until about 3 years ago and so I wasn't getting enough thyroid stimulation to burn the load of carbohydrates I was eating. Also, I convinced the doctor to put me on Armour thyroid because it has a better side effects profile than Synthroid (i.e., you feel good and you lose weight vs. Synthroid). This may be due to the fact that Armour has about 20% T3 and Synthroid has none.
If I continue losing weight on this regimen, not only will this be the first time I've lost weight on a high carb diet, but it will be the first time I did it without weight loss pharmaceuticals.
Although there are great arguments (which I'm sure Larry would make) that obesity is a disease and it requires pharmaceutical drugs to cure it, I would prefer not to use them because I know how phentermine and sibutramine feel and they tend to make you more antsy and quick to anger.
I would prefer to load up my aminos to get the mood boost I need to stay on the diet than use drugs which make me grumpy and thin.
We'll see how this strategy works. I have to do something since my blood pressure has been as high as 150 over 100 when I was closer to 210.
Ralph
On May 10, 2009 at 8:14 am Admin2 wrote:
. . . . .
Ralph,
Congratulations on your weight loss.
That was also smart of you to request Armour rather than Synthroid.
I am all for people losing weight without drugs.
Keep up informed.
Larry Hobbs
On May 10, 2009 at 2:17 pm Ralph wrote:
. . . . .
Larry,
I haven't found the key which fits the lock yet, but I've seen a lot of inferences between arginine and thyroid. It appears that arginine potentiates the thyroid hormone T3.
Perhaps that is the "secret sauce" that explains why arginine seems to be an accelerant for some people. It somehow increases the production of or the effectiveness of T3.
Let me explain. Prior to going on 10 grams of arginine a day, I did not need to defecate daily. Also, I wouldn't really get sweaty or hot during the day.
Now, after taking my Armour in the morning and arginine about 3 hours later, I notice I get sweaty. About 3 hours after that, I need to use the restroom. And this has happened every day that I used arginine during the past 5 days.
We'll see if that pattern continues, but appears to me that the arginine (or possibly the combination of tyrosine, mucuna, 5htp and arginine) is potentiating the effects of thyroid based on the fact that I've never used the bathroom this much and I've never had sweats from taking Armour at 1 grain daily. I have had sweats taking Armour at 2 grains daily.
The surprising thing is the regularity of the bathroom visits and the fact that I am defecating more regularly.
Ralph
PS sorry for discussing bathroom habits, but I think if you're fat and you're defecating more that's generally not a bad thing as far as losing weight
On May 11, 2009 at 10:40 am Admin2 wrote:
. . . . .
Ralph,
Thanks for the info.
If you started the tyrosine, 5-HTP, etc at the same time you started the arginine, my guess would be that it is more likely the tyrosine than the arginine.
Tyrosine alone can increase noradrenaline output by up to 13% -- not a lot, but some.
( Taking a substance, such as tea, which forces the release of noradrenaline, increases noradrenaline output much more than this because it stimulates the enzyme -- tyrosine hydroxylase -- which makes more noradrenaline. )
5-HTP might also add to this by increasing serotonin levels.
Increasing both noradrenaline and serotonin causes more thermogenesis than just increasing noradrenaline levels.
Also note that tyrosine is used to make thyroid hormones, although I'm not aware that researchers have ever found that simple taking tyrosine increases thyroid hormone levels.
If you notice sweating 3 hours after taking the Armour thyroid, I would guess that the Armour thyroid is involved in the sweating, simply because you don't notice it for 3 hours.
I feel the effects of tyrosine and 5-HTP within 15-20 minutes.
You can do a simple, one-time experiment to see if the arginine is involved in the sweating, simply by not taking the arginine, and see if you still notice sweating 3 hours later.
Maybe you don't care why and would rather not mess with something that seems to be working for you, which I would certainly understand.
Larry Hobbs
On May 17, 2009 at 9:57 am Ralph wrote:
. . . . .
Larry,
Just giving an interesting update.
After noticing that my body temperature is now at 99.8 F during the day, I started to wonder how much of this mild temperature elevation is being caused by L-arginine and how much by other supplements.
As a person with a hypothyroid condition, I take regular body temperature readings to determine how well my medicine is working.
Well, without any supplements, taking Armour Thyroid alone in the recommended dose, my body starts the day around 97.2 and peaks at 98.6 and then goes back to 97.2 during the night. Without Armour, my body temperature is around 96.5.
Just adding L-arginine to the mix, raises my body temperature to 99.8 from the usual 98.6.
This would lead one to wonder if it has novel thermogenic properties. Obviously, there are so many unknowns here: is it really just potentiating the effects of Armour thyroid? is it causing the body to prefer fat over muscle which produces excess heat?
One thing I can report with almost certainty: when I'm only taking Armour thyroid alone, my body temperature peaks at 98.6. When I'm taking L-arginine with Armour my body temperature peaks at 99.8.
This is a sign of something significant going on and I really would appreciate any guidance that might come from a medical professional.
It is not an uncomfortable fever -- like you might have when sick. It is more like the sweaty hot feeling you get after doing the exercise cycle for 30 minutes.
Ralph
On May 17, 2009 at 10:02 am Ralph wrote:
. . . . .
Wanted to make one thing clear: I am not taking anything but Armour and L-arginine to get to 99.8F. No other vitamins. No other supplements.
Ralhp
On May 17, 2009 at 10:40 am Admin2 wrote:
. . . . .
Ralph,
Very interesting that the arginine raises your temperature.
You are correct that arginine -- that is, the nitric oxide produced from arginine -- enhances thermogenesis.
A paper from 2005 found that nitric oxide, which is made from arginine, increases brown fat and enhances thermogenesis.
REFERENCE
Petrovic V, Korac A, Buzadzic B, Korac B. The effects of l-arginine and l-name supplementation on redox-regulation and thermogenesis in interscapular brown adipose tissue. J Exp Biol. 2005 Nov, 208(Pt 22):4263-71.
------
A paper from 2003 found that blocking production of nitric oxide inhibited cold-induced thermogenesis.
REFERENCE
Kamerman P, Laburn H, Mitchell D. Inhibitors of nitric oxide synthesis block cold-induced thermogenesis in rats. Can J Physiol Pharmacol. 2003 Aug, 81(8):834-38.
------
So you are exactly correct.
Thanks for the info, Ralph.
There is nothing harmful about it.
In fact, they also found that arginine / nitric oxide increased the antioxidant defense of muscles also.
On May 17, 2009 at 10:45 am Admin2 wrote:
. . . . .
Ralph,
In case you have not seen it...
You might also be interested in what Joan Mathews Larson, PhD has to say about taking iodine to increase thyroid levels.
For your info...
T4 thyroid hormone contains 4 atoms of iodine.
T3 thyroid hormone contains 3 atoms of iodine.
T4 is often called the storage form of thyroid hormone, and T3 the active form.
An enzyme -- enzymes are like chemical scissors -- cuts off one of the iodine atoms to convert T4 to T3.
See these two articles / videos:
http://fatnews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/iodine-protects-against-breast-cancer-joan-mathews-larson-phd2/
http://fatnews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/iodine-protects-against-breast-cancer-joan-mathews-larson-phd1/
On Jun 12, 2009 at 2:08 pm Kate C. wrote:
. . . . .
Larry, I tried arginine as well, as soon as you posted the info. I started by taking it throughout the day, in capsules, then switched to powder and took it once in the morning and once at night. I took 10-12 grams a day for at least a month and did not lose a single pound. I haven't really cut my calorie intake that much, but do a pretty good workout at least 3-4 times a week with weights and cardio (meaning that I'm drenched when I finish). So I'm not sure why this didn't work for me.
Kate
On Jun 12, 2009 at 2:21 pm Larry Hobbs wrote:
. . . . .
Kate,
Thanks for sharing your story.
On Aug 17, 2009 at 2:31 am Ann wrote:
. . . . .
Larry, these are great references for suppliers for powdered amino acids! Thanks a bunch!
I think tablets are a waste and nutrients should be available in liquid form, or like here in powder which can be dissolved in liquid for quicker uptake and absorption.
I know from talking to researchers that the quality of the raw materials can make or break research results and determines results. Maybe this is why so many studies contradict each other.
By the way, what is the reason you are collecting all this information for this website?
Best
Ann
On Aug 17, 2009 at 2:44 am Ann wrote:
. . . . .
Ralph, if you are looking for something that truly aids people with high blood pressure and cardiovascular system problems you should buy high quality phosphatidylcholine. There is enormous research proving all the great benefits with phosphatidylcholine - PC - and clear research evidence proving even oral PC can reduce arterial plaque, diabetes, and many different conditions. You need to take about 2000 mg per day. Best to take before bedtime. Most potent is liquid form supplements.
Just make sure the raw materials are of exceptionally high quality, and avoid any synthetic ones as these have shown to do little if any effect. Preferrably, buy PC with German made raw materials. I've read tons of reports from many years of German research on this wonderlipid, a name it really deserves.
On Aug 23, 2009 at 12:45 pm Ann wrote:
. . . . .
This 20 year research on L-Arginine does not recommend L-Arginine with HCL but claims it can cause mortalities.
Here is a few samples of do's and dont's when chosing the right L-Arginine:
http://www.arginineresearch.com/ClinicalBenefits.htm#UnacceptableFormsofLArginine
On Aug 30, 2009 at 5:15 pm Larry Hobbs wrote:
. . . . .
Ann,
The website you referenced is an advertisement for L-ArginineM2 disguised as research.
I don't believe it.
I think it is nonsense.
There are other similar websites which state that all other forms of arginine are not safe.
This is utter nonsense.
Look up the patent for L-ArginineM2.
The patent only gives two examples.
It is someone trying to sell their product by saying all other forms are dangerous.
This is not true.
On Aug 30, 2009 at 5:17 pm Larry Hobbs wrote:
. . . . .
Ann,
I prefer powders also just because it is cheaper.
I don't like tablets because of binders and fillers.
However, capsules are also OK, just more expensive than powder.
On Sep 12, 2009 at 8:05 pm anon wrote:
. . . . .
I've been on 20g of L-Arginine HCL with L-Ornithine HCL (powder) per day with 500mg VitC and get bloated and feel heavier in the days after L-Arginine intake. It feels like I maintain a lot of water retention.
What could be wrong?
On Sep 15, 2009 at 2:52 pm AJ wrote:
. . . . .
I really love your articles Larry, and follow them with great interest.
Being curious and wanting to lose some weight, I've been trying L-Arginine HCL/L-Ornithine without Vitamin C since the powder stock on VitC was out of stock at the time. The first week I felt quite bloated and like the other comment, heavier. I was taking about 15-20g per day.
The second week I developed violent and watery diarrhea one hour after 6g intake with my stomach keeping me awake half of the night... (hm, I could live without those!). I have heard many times that laxatives are used by models and actors as the quickest and most effective way to reduce bloating and get your weight down. But the long use of laxatives could damage the intestinal lining, dehydration, decreased bowel function, electrolyte imbalance etc so I presume this should not to be seen as a daily or long term solution.
However, here is my question: could a large portion of the weight loss experiences from L-Arginine be actually due to the diarrhea than the L-Arginine itself?
On Sep 15, 2009 at 3:12 pm Larry Hobbs wrote:
. . . . .
Anon,
Regarding feeling heavier / water retention.
20 grams of L-Arginine HCL with L-Ornithine HCL is a large dose.
Durk Pearson and Sandy Shaw, who are the ones referred to in this video, later recommended:
- 18 grams of arginine per day for a man
- 12 grams of arginine per day for a woman
If ornithine is used instead, you only need half as much.
Therefore, if you are using a mixture of arginine and ornithine, the doses would be 75% of the doses above, or:
- 13.5 grams of arginine/ornithine per day for a man
- 9 grams of arginine/ornithine per day for a woman
------
Based on 27 years of taking high doses of lots of supplements, I would always recommend "Start low and go slow."
In other words, start with a low dose and gradually increase it to allow the body to adjust.
On Sep 15, 2009 at 3:17 pm Larry Hobbs wrote:
. . . . .
AJ,
Thank you very much for your nice comment.
I appreciate it.
-----
Regarding: Could weight loss from arginine be due to diarrhea?
No.
Diarrhea kills a lot of people around the world every year.
Diarrhea causes a loss of a lot of key nutrients, so it is definitely something you want to avoid.
If it were me, I would start with a low dose, maybe 1 gram for several days, and then slowly increase it over a period of several weeks.
If you get diarrhea, the dose is too high.
On Feb 02, 2010 at 11:57 am kiran wrote:
. . . . .
larry
just wanted to thank you for all the information you have put on this page. made fascinating reading for me -- this evening was an idle search through the internet and i landed on your page!
the talk about arginine was fascinating but living in India as i do, arginine isnt so easily available as a solus product -- and so what i have got from a local chemist (you would call that a pharmacy i suppose) is arginine powder (3g) in a sachet combined with proanthocyanidin (75 mg). should i be taking this?
i have a good 70 lbs to lose -- and cant see my way to doing this entirely on my own (ie through diet and exercise), and that's what leads me to permanent procrastination in this department!
look forward to hearing from you -- and perhaps some info on how i should take this (if i should)
thanks
kiran
On Feb 02, 2010 at 12:13 pm Larry Hobbs wrote:
. . . . .
Kiran,
I prefer to stick with just the ingredient that I am testing -- in this case, just pure arginine -- so if I experience some side effect, I know exactly what is causing it.
You could try the arginine plus proanthocyanidins.
Proanthocyanidins are found in things like grapes.
I would just approach it slowly, starting with a small dose and see if I felt OK.
Note that several people above say that they have tried it without success.
Lifting weights for a few minutes about an hour after taking it may an important part of the story.
Note that Sandy Shaw did NOT spend a long time doing this.
In one article, she said that she one spent a couple minutes a WEEK doing strength training, while in another article written a number of years later, she said she spend a couple minutes a DAY.
Either way, it does not involve working out for an hour a day, but rather just a couple minutes about an hour after taking the arginine.
Let us know how you do.
Larry Hobbs
On Apr 15, 2010 at 6:36 am AJ wrote:
. . . . .
I have to mention something about Arginine: I tried L-Arginine HCL with L-Ornithine HCL for about a month. I noticed no weight loss with it.
However, about three months after I quit taking it (mainly because I was traveling and did not bring it with me) I had weight loss of about 5lbs without effort, and without changing my diet or habits. I have a very, very difficult time losing weight and have thyroid problems.
I don't know if Arginine may have had a part in this or not. If its mixed with some herbal teas it can give stomach problems. It depends on the tea.
On May 16, 2010 at 5:19 am Michele wrote:
. . . . .
Ralph,
You temps. going up and down like that sounds like adrenals to me. Did you have them checked before going on thyroid meds?
Michele
On May 16, 2010 at 8:25 am Ralph wrote:
. . . . .
Yes, I had a battery of tests done including adrenal function before I went on Armour thyroid.
By the way, I had the same doubts as you that the thyroid is really the culprit here, so I demanded the endocrinologist do a sonogram of the thyroid gland one month ago. He said the thyroid gland is inflamed which is almost certainly a sign of Hashimoto's thyroiditis where the body attacks its own thyroid gland. My mom had exactly the same thing which is another reason to deduce that the doctor is probably on the right track.
My only frustration is that Armour thyroid has not been able to bring my TSH levels into the normal range and my doctor keeps pressuring me to go back to synthetic thyroid. Despite all the internet articles suggesting natural is superior, it appears that the drug is not being well controlled in the manufacturing process which is ruining the good name of an otherwise great drug. I may have to go back to synthetic thyroid for that reason since i could get proper TSH on synthetic but not on natural.
Ralph
On Apr 06, 2011 at 8:47 am Nat wrote:
. . . . .
Are there any risks to starting arginine at such a high dose? Also, is L-Arginien the same as arginine (without the L)?
Thank you.
On Apr 06, 2011 at 9:18 am Admin2 wrote:
. . . . .
Nat,
One paper I saw said that doses up to 6 grams (6,000 mg) were safe, so you might want to limit it to that.
Nausea, upset stomach or diarrhea are always possible when taking supplements.
Arginine can also trigger a herpes outbreak in susceptible people.
Yes, Arginine is the same as L-Arginine.
Also note that no one has said that this has worked for them.
Larry Hobbs
On Apr 08, 2011 at 2:02 pm Julie wrote:
. . . . .
Watched the video today. Very interesting. I noticed in the book text that Sandy took BOTH high doses of Arginine AND vitamin C (several grams per day)to expedite her bone healing over the course of several months. Just about everyone posting here took Arginine only and did not have the weight loss success hoped for ....they did not say, however, if they also took high doses of vitamin C with it like Sandy did; I suspect they did not. The high dose of Vitamin C may be the key necessary to having success with a high dose of Arginine for weight loss such as achieved by Sandy. Sometimes something so simple, (and often overlooked) can make the difference between success or failure. Arginine and Vitamin C may appear to be mismatched partners; but remember you need Boron for vitamin D absorption, vitamin D for calcium absorption, vitamin C for iron absorption, B6 for L-tryptophan absorption, etc. So before giving up on Arginine for achieving weight loss, take it with vitamin C --only then will you be doing EXACTLY what Sandy did. Peace.
On Apr 08, 2011 at 2:10 pm Admin2 wrote:
. . . . .
Julie,
Thanks for your input.
A rule of thumb for items that are supposed to cause weight loss is that if it is going to cause weight loss, you will know it within a week or two.
It will not take any longer than this to know if it going to work.
If you try something for a couple of weeks and have not lost any weight, it's not going to work.
Don't let supplement companies try to convince you that you may need to take something for a couple of months before it causes weight loss. This is simply not true.
Larry Hobbs
On Apr 08, 2011 at 2:55 pm Julie wrote:
. . . . .
Hi Larry. I absolutely agree with you. So if anyone is going to try to replicate Sandy's surprise of achieving weight loss with high doses of Arginine and vitamin C, don't go buying a lot of bottles or many months worth of these two supplements. I am going to give this "experiment" a try myself...I am going to use just "plain" Arginine and vitamin C. I think if Sandy had used Arginine HCI with or without Ornithine and/or any other ingredient mixture, she would have specifically mentioned this combination form in her book. In order for me to know if what she did that resulted in weight loss will also work for me, I need to do it just like she did. I am guessing Arginine combined with various other nutrients was not available in 1982 as they are today. Small changes can sometimes make a big difference; and, in this case, could mean the difference between losing weight or not. Have a great day !!
On Apr 08, 2011 at 11:27 pm BAJ wrote:
. . . . .
I tried 10 gr of Arginine/Ornithine Hcl with vit C per day, divided into 3 times a day, for 2 months.
L-Arginine tastes pretty bad so I would mix it in herb tea to make it easier to consumer. I had violent diarreah for a week! However, one day I was busy and didn't bother to make hot water for the tea. I had no diarreah from the arginine that. Clearly the combination was not good. After that I stoppped taking the arginine with this particular tea, and had no problems anymore with diarreah. I increased the dose to 20mg per day in the second month.
I never had any weight loss. I did not go to the gym but I would take a 45 min brisk walk in the mornings.
I do wonder if the arginine is of the right quality. Pure Bulk is great but they buys all their products from China and I know many medical raw materials from Asia contain no health benefits and are of poor quality [an FDA researcher - forgot his name - discussed this in detail in an article I read. He was studying amino acids and his studies showed no benefits or results. When he switched his raw materials to German made ones he immediately had a positive effect in his research than when he used the same amino acids from imported Asian raw materials]. However many smaller pharmacies etc all use raw materials from China.
I'm gonna try arginine again as it apparently has many other health benefits. But I am still curious if we got the mix wrong, or if the raw materials are not measuring up?
On Apr 09, 2011 at 6:43 am Admin2 wrote:
. . . . .
BAJ,
Thank you for your feedback.
Larry Hobbs
On Apr 09, 2011 at 8:55 am Julie wrote:
. . . . .
BAJ -- Regarding quality of material..I agree with you. I wondered if Sandy hasn't upped her intake to the 20 grams per day because today it is sold in a lessor quality than in the early 80's when she first bought it -- ie need twice as many/much today
to get the same effect of what was sold almost 30 years ago. I buy my vitamins from Vitacost.com.
They sell plain Natrol L-Arginine 3000 mg 90 caps for $9.20 per bottle. The also list additional ingredients as vitamins B-6, folic acid and B-12 help support energy levels (they say). Dosage on bottle is 3 caps per day, once per day, with meal.
I have been purchasing my vitamins from this company regularly for about three years and find the service excellent in all aspects. This is the Arginine I am going to go ahead and purchase and give this a try. I plan on taking 4 - 3000 mg caps of Arginine per day, divided doses, and with each dose take 2000 mg of Vitamin C (total Arginine per day 12 grams and total Vitamin C per day 8000 mg) No I don't think my vitamin C intake is too high...special needs dietary intake is listed as high as 10,000 mg per day for 30 days. Good Luck. Keep us informed.
On Apr 09, 2011 at 10:15 am Admin2 wrote:
. . . . .
Julie,
Note: All supplement companies that sell supplements to the public buy their raw ingredients like arginine from raw material manufacturers.
And they usually don't buy them directly from the raw material manufacturer, but instead buy them from a distributor who buys the raw materials from the manufacturer.
As RAJ noted above, I assume that most supplement companies are now using raw materials that come from China because they are cheaper than those that come from Japan -- who used to make most of the amino acids like arginine.
Durk Pearson and Sandy Shaw used to say that they only used amino acids like arginine that were manufactured by the Japanese company, Ajinomoto.
I used to buy directly from Ajinomoto USA, however, in 2002, they started only selling through Sigma-Aldrich Fine Chemicals, which is a chemical distributor.
I don't know if Sigma-Aldrich will sell to individuals, or if you have to be a doctor or, for example, a university researcher.
Ajinomoto USA also told me in 2003 that their Japanese-made amino acids were also being sold by a small company called "JoMar".
Here is the phone number they gave me in 2003.
-------
JoMar -- sells Ajinomoto amino acids
Contact: Joann
408-374-5920 phone
-------
For anyone who wishes to look into this more, here are some phone numbers as of 2002 -- so the phone numbers may be out of date now, that is, they may have changed.
--------
By the way, the prices of the Ajinomoto amino acids increased DRAMATICALLY in about 2002.
Prices of some items I had bought for many years DOUBLED or more in price.
---------
Ajinomoto USA Inc
3460 Torrance Blvd Ste 310
Torrance CA 90503
Attn: Greg
1-310-4-543-8600
1-310-543-2456 fax
04/29/02
now sold through
Sigma-Aldrich Fine Chemicals
1-800-336-9719
Hiroyuki Miyake
VP, Amino Acids Division
Sigma-Aldrich Fine Chemicals
PO Box 355
Milwaukee, WI 53201
Toll Free: 800-227-4563
Tel: 414-273-3850
Fax: 414-273-5793
http://www.sigma-aldrich.com/safc
E-mail: .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
---------
Larry Hobbs
On Apr 09, 2011 at 11:57 am BAJ wrote:
. . . . .
Sorry for all the typos. :-\
I was in a hurry and my keyboard is messed up.
On Apr 09, 2011 at 12:10 pm BAJ wrote:
. . . . .
Great info about Ajinomoto and JoMar, Larry. And thanks Julie, for the referral.
I had no idea amino acids mainly originated from Japan previously. I highly recommend German made pharma supplies; ANYTHING be it vitamins, meds, you name it. The Germans have the highest quality products I have ever found. But I am unable to find raw materials made in Germany sold in the U.S. Their quality control regulations are very strict and they often rely on their own patented methods for extracting and preserving various amino acids etc. This seems to be the secret. As I mentioned, even FDA studies showed vaste differences between German pharma supplies vs asian ones. The asian ones were basically equivalent to sugar pills... no evidence of health benefits at all, no improvements on conditions [asians tend to sell synthetic supplies]. The results all changed when the researchers tried the same raw materials made and processed in Germany.
On Apr 09, 2011 at 12:34 pm Admin2 wrote:
. . . . .
BAJ,
If I remember correctly from what Durk Pearson and Sandy Shaw wrote about 20 years ago, nearly all amino acids were made by something like seven (7) manufacturers in Japan.
Based on what Durk Pearson and Sandy Shaw said 20 years ago, Ajinomoto is/was the best.
This is pure speculation, but, for me, I trust Japanese manufacturers as much as German manufacturers.
Japanese cars are of very high quality just like German cars.
Also, if you look for photographic lenses, some people say that Japanese-made lenses are the best.
There is a German company that makes 5-HTP.
(Tryptophan is converted into 5-HTP which is then converted into serotonin.)
The company's name is Kaden Biochemicals GmbH.
(GmbH is like "Inc." in the U.S.)
However, I think that the 5-HTP, which is also an amino acid, is made from a plant source.
I do not think that they make other amino acids such as arginine.
I do not know if there are German companies that make amino acids like arginine.
There is also a Swiss company that makes the amino acid 5-HTP. The company is called Linnea Inc.
I think they also get it from a plant source.
However, I do not know if they make other amino acids such as arginine.
Larry Hobbs
Please feel free to share your comments about this article.
© Copyright 2003-2021 - Larry Hobbs - All Rights Reserved.